..續本文上一頁enturies later, we have the same neuroses that they had.

　　Dzigar Kongtrül: I agree. The text is as valuable for students today as it was for students then. Cultures have changed outwardly, but the makeup of inpiduals” minds and the confusions and conflicting emotions are the same. The only change may be that there is a more urgent need to relate with one”s mind, because pain is so much stronger in this culture, which is so fast-moving and consumed by materialism.

　　Pema Chödrön: You think the pain is greater today in our culture

　　Dzigar Kongtrül: The psychological pain and emotional pain are greater, given that so many of the support systems for people—good morals, ethics, values, and a healthy lifestyle—have been removed. Of course, there is no question that throughout history there”s been a tremendous amount of pain and suffering.

　　Pema Chödrön: What always strikes me is how intelligent we are as human beings, and yet how often we miss this very simple truth: we want happiness but the ways we go about trying to get it cause us to suffer. Whenever you ask yourself why you”re having a cigarette or why you”re saying a mean word, the answer is usually that in your guts you feel it will bring some satisfaction. Yet, if you ask yourself if what you are doing has ever given you satisfaction, your honest answer would have to be no. Nevertheless, we keep right on doing it. This kind of stupidity seems to run very deep in human beings.

　　Dzigar Kongtrül: That”s why we need to reflect very deeply, with a strong attitude of not giving up. Then a definite impact can be made on the mind. The ability to think more skillfully and the ability to sustain one”s mind with a positive attitude are inherent capabilities. But how do you get somebody interested in reflecting deeply enough to discover those inherent capabilities without their getting burned out from the frustrations and disappointments that arise from seeing their own minds

　　Somehow, students have to gain a greater confidence in their potential than in the confusion that oppresses them. That confidence is buddhanature. We need to encourage a kind of self-esteem in the student—not ego self-esteem, but buddhanature self-esteem.

　　Pema Chödrön: Is that the same as what Trungpa Rinpoche called “trust in our basic goodness”

　　Dzigar Kongtrül: Yes, trust in our basic goodness is very important. Teachers must do whatever they can to instill this in their students, and students must do whatever they can to instill it in themselves. Merit plays a very great role here, I feel. Merit refers to gathering causes and conditions that allow you to have a certain level of well-being. The momentum that results from your positive deeds helps to develop psychological and physical well-being, so that you have the environment and resources necessary to subsist in this world of samsara, as well as to go beyond it.

　　People who have done well in their lives have a certain amount of confidence in themselves and in their ability to follow through on their intentions. This kind of confidence, developed in worldly affairs, can be applied to the spiritual path if one decides to do so.

　　Elizabeth Namgyel: How would you suggest a student go about gaining, or gathering, merit

　　Dzigar Kongtrül: I would suggest learning how to rely on one”s own positive qualities, and to have a more altruistic mind. When you have altruistic mind, His Holiness the D_Lama always says, if you want to be selfish, then you can be selfish intelligently. [Laughter] The positive things that arise for us don”t come about from being selfish. But you luck out by having all the positive things in your life, even though you were only trying to do altruistic deeds.

　　Pema Chödrön: I recall an analogy you gave rec…

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