..續本文上一頁t patience.

　　Student B: How do we listen and how do we hear the inner request

　　Suzuki-rōshi: Well, we always hear our inmost request incessantly. When—as long as we live [

　　], we always listen, you know, our—the conscientious—voice of conscience.

　　Student C: How do you answer people who argue that—that they must ignore—that big patience requires that they ignore their inmost request, and instead simply conform to the world they find themselves in. Say, you know, like a man with a job where he admits his neediness or, you know, who kinds of—

　　Suzuki-rōshi: Mm—hmm.

　　Student C: —puts out some kind of customary task and he admits it—

　　Suzuki-rōshi: Yeah, yeah.

　　Student C: —how can he—he says that this—

　　Suzuki-rōshi: Yeah.

　　Student C: —this is big patience this is darkness—

　　Suzuki-rōshi: Mm-hmm.

　　Student C: How do you live [

　　] through it

　　Suzuki-rōshi: That is why we have teaching, you know.

　　Student C: Yeah.

　　Suzuki-rōshi: You know, they ignore it usually. Almost all people ignore—ignore our true existence, and some superficial understanding of self is—what do they mean by “self”

　　 They ignore true self. “I”m not doing Zen,” they say. “I”m not doing something wrong. I am always doing something right.” [Laughs.] That is what they will say. But if you—if you listen to your inmost voice or inm- [partial word]—voice of conscience, you know, you—it is not so simple.

　　Student D: Is it something like reciting sūtras

　　 That”s—often we ourselves are making so much noise, so many sounds out—

　　Suzuki-rōshi: Mm-hmm.

　　Student D: —or going out that we can”t hear this voice within. We have to stop making noise and start making noises on one level to be able to listen on the deeper level.

　　Suzuki-rōshi: Yeah. Yeah. That is why we say you—you should not recite sūtra, you know. Your, true nature should recite sūtra. Big mind recites, not small mind, not—small self should not recite sūtra. The self which is universal to everyone should recite sūtra with people.

　　Here we have—when we say—I say like this, here is already some duality, you know. Small self or big self. But actually the small self does not exist. That which exist is big self only. We—we just create small self, and we say this is right [laughs]. But it is not right, you know. So first of all we should be free from, or we should be emancipated from the idea of small self. That is why Buddha says, “Every constituent existence is doomed to suffer.”

　　Every constituent objects, everything which we see, which we feel, which we can understand is—because it is not true, so it should be full of suffering, suffering itself because it is dualistic. When there is duality, there is suffering. In this sense, everything is—appears in the form of suffering, and it is not—when you understand that is not true existence, there is no more suffering. If you find out that is just a dream [laughs], there is no suffering. The dream you created or you have dreamed of it, then there is no more suffering.

　　So first of all we should understand four noble truths. Four noble truths is why we suffer, and this world is full of suffering. And this intelligent world is full of suffering. The world we seek is full of suffering. And nirvāna—when you find out those world where we have full of suffering is not real, then you have nirvāna. And how to attain nirvāna is way to attain nirvāna. So those are four noble truths.

　　Why we, you know—Buddha told us four noble truths is to destroy your easy way of understanding of life: scientific understanding or philosophical understanding. Those understanding is easy way, you know. Without any effort you can read books [laughs]. Even though you are lying down you can study [laughs, laughter]. Very easy. But, you know—it is very easy, but it will n…

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