..续本文上一页people have had this pain for a long time, they”ve been dealing with it, and they had the foresight to leave these practices for us to use. I”m always supported by spirits and ancestors and people in my tribe, whoever they”ve been and however long ago they lived. So it was like having another tribe of people, of ancestors, come to the rescue with this wisdom that came through you and your way of teaching.

　　Pema Chödrön: I think the times are ripe for this kind of teaching.

　　Alice Walker: Oh, I think it”s just the right medicine for today. You know, the other really joyous thing is that I feel more open, I feel more openness toward people in my world.

　　It”s what you have said about feeling more at home in your world. I think this is the result of going the distance in your own heart—really being disciplined about opening your heart as much as you can. The thing I find, Pema, is that it closes up again. You know

　　Pema Chödrön: Oh no! (laughter) One year of listening to me and your heart still closes up

　　Alice Walker: Yeah. It”s like what you have said about how the ego is like a closed room and our whole life”s work is to open the door. You may open the door and then discover that you”re not up to keeping it open for long. The work is to keep opening it. You have an epiphany, you understand something, you feel slightly enlightened about something, but then you lose it. That”s the reality. So it”s not a bad thing.

　　Pema Chödrön: No

　　Alice Walker: But it”s frustrating at times, because you think to yourself, I”ve worked on this, why is it still snagging in the same spot

　　Pema Chödrön: That”s how life keeps us honest. The inspiration that comes from feeling the openness seems so important, but on the other hand, I”m sure it would eventually turn into some kind of spiritual pride or arrogance. So life has this miraculous ability to smack you in the face with a real humdinger just when you”re going over the edge in terms of thinking you”ve accomplished something. That humbles you; it”s some kind of natural balancing that keeps you human. At the same time the sense of joy does get stronger and stronger.

　　Alice Walker: Because otherwise you feel you”re just going to be smacked endlessly, and what”s the point

　　 (laughter)

　　Pema Chödrön: It”s about relaxing with the moment, whether it”s painful or pleasurable. I teach about that a lot because that”s personally how I experience it. The openness brings the smile on my face, the sense of gladness just to be here. And when it gets painful, it”s not like there”s been some big mistake or something. It just comes and goes.

　　Alice Walker: That brings me to something else I”ve discovered in my practice, because I”ve been doing meditation for many years—not tonglen, but TM and metta practice. There are times when I meditate, really meditate, very on the dot, for a year or so, and then I”ll stop. So what happens

　　 Does that ever happen to you

　　Pema Chödrön: Yes. (laughter)

　　Alice Walker: Good!

　　Pema Chödrön: And I just don”t worry about it.

　　Alice Walker: Good! (laughter)

　　Pema Chödrön: One of the things I”ve discovered as the years go on is that there can”t be any “shoulds.” Even meditation practice can become something you feel you should do, and then it becomes another thing you worry about.

　　So I just let it ebb and flow, because I feel it”s always with you in some way, whether you”re formally practicing or not. My hunger for meditation ebbs but the hunger always comes back, and not necessarily because things are going badly. It”s like a natural opening and closing, or a natural relaxation and then getting involved in something else, going back and forth.

　　Alice Walker: I was surprised to discover how easy it was for m…

《Good Medicine For This World》全文未完，请进入下页继续阅读…