..续本文上一页 whites saying, well, we won”t listen because they”re going to distort the truth for their own advantage and we”ll have no control over it. Instead, what happened was that as the victims of torture came forward, as mother after mother spoke about the loss of her child or husband, it became a shared national experience of listening to people”s human stories. And over time it allowed the whites to see the humanity of black South Africans, to see that they experienced the same sense of loss, the same grief as they did. To see them as human was a profound shift in the national sensibility, because any form of terrible treatment such as apartheid depends on denying the humanity of the victims.

　　What I learned from this is that first of all we need to listen to one another”s stories. We really need to acknowledge the other”s experience as they present it to us, and out of that comes the possibility of a different relationship. When we are aware of the other”s humanity, so much becomes possible in terms of working with each other.

　　Pema Chödrön: This is what I have been discovering again and again. We assume that by moving closer to suffering we would spiral down, but it”s amazing what a source of inspiration it is to face it together. It surprises us that the darkness is a source of inspiration.

　　Margaret Wheatley: The experience of facing ourselves at the inpidual level also helps us be together differently at a societal level. What I”m finding is that independent of any explicit spiritual basis, when people in organizations are able to tell the truth of their experience to each other, it addresses the questions of who really we are in an organization and what we are really learning. What do I feel about how this team is working, truthfully

　　 What have I learned today about doing this project

　　 There has been so much avoidance of being together in our humanity in our organizations that we don”t ask these kinds of questions. But I find it”s truly transformative when we start telling the truth to one another, including our mistakes, including our confusion. We summon something deep in all of us any time we speak together about the truth of our experience of being human.

　　Like you, Pema, I think people want to be courageous. We really want to be more noble, and we want to speak for the things we see and the things we believe. This doesn”t have to be grounded in any spiritual practice, but it always takes people there. Whether it”s in a government office, a meditation center or a large corporation, whenever we can truly encounter one another in all of our humanity, we get past the illusion that everything works according to plan and we never feel uncertain. This is the great imprisonment we”re trying to find our way out of, and one way to do it is to speak truthfully to one another about our experience. Then we experience a great recognition of being in the presence of other human beings. Whether it”s through suffering or joy, what we”re really seeking is that moment of recognizing another human being. That”s always joyful in some way.

　　Pema Chödrön: This is what I would consider a spiritual journey, although it doesn”t have to have any of the religious labels. When people are courageous enough to express their experience—their inspiration as well as their disappointment and failure—that”s the basis of awakening, of spiritual awakening. Of course, our experience is colored by our own take on reality.

　　Margaret Wheatley: Yes, until you get to the enlightened state.

　　Pema Chödrön: But even when we”re talking about the enlightened state, the path still seems to be one of waking to each moment as honestly as we can, and being willing to communicate with other people without feeling shame about exposing our def…

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