July 26 1965 2nd Talk

　　Originally offered: July 26th, 1965 | Modified October 27th, 2009 by Shunryu Suzuki Roshi

　　SRC0003

　　Shunryū Shunryū Suzuki-rōshi

　　SUMMER SESSHIN LECTURE: 1 PM[1]

　　Monday, July 26, 1965

　　Lecture D

　　Soko-ji Temple, San Francisco

　　Listen to this talk: Suzuki-roshi 65-07-26 2nd Talk

　　Recently I find many problems concerning to religious problem, such as psychology or LSD or the problem of how to bring about complete peace. Those problems are most important problems in present day, I think. In our system of Zen—Zen philosophy—I”m not emphasizing philosophy, but when we have discussion, there must be some system or else our discussion will [not] result [in] anything. So I just want to present you some system.

　　As you know, our problem—the most important basic construction of culture may be science. Science is very important. And—but science just study or treat outward object, as a object of study. And—but—and science will result [in a] materialistic understanding of life. But whether our human being is spiritual or material is big problem, which has been discussed for a long, long time. We have no conclusion to it yet: We are [are we] spiritual or material [laughs]

　　 Our mental function is just attribute of body, or our mental—spiritual function is basic function for human being. And this kind of problem is not solved completely.

　　But anyway, the problems which cannot be solved by science will be solved by culture of science. So the basic foun- [partial word]—basic—our [basic] construction will be science, and next one will be natural science, and next one will be cultural science.

　　In this science, there is—we discuss about what is truth, what is beauty, what is good, and, if possible, what is holiness. But it is rather difficult to discuss what is holiness—holy nature by cultural science. So the last problem for us is what is holiness

　　 What is holy nature

　　This problem will be solved with religious—religion. So we have four foundation—our culture has four foundation: natural science, cultural science, and—three foundation, maybe: natural science, cultural science, and religion. In religion, we discuss also what is our mind—what is our mind—whether it is material or spiritual, it is also our problem for religious study. And, of course, we discuss about what is holy nature. But we treat our mind not as a mind as psychology. Psychology—psychological study is to study our mind as a object of study. “Here is mind,” you know, “which is universal to everyone. And what is the function of our mind

　　” This is psychology.

　　But religion—in religion we study our mind as our own—as our own. This is the difference, you know. My own mind—not everyone”s mind [laughing]. I don”t mind some other”s mind, but we do mind my mind [laughter]. That is religion.

　　So science will bring you some universal truth, which is like a telescope. You will have a vast sight of mind which is universal, as if you see San Francisco from Tamalpais [laughs].[2] You can see everything in the—you can see the best sight of the San Francisco from Tamalpais. But that—that kind of study—of course it helps you, but [laughs] you will not be so interested in the science—your mind in—as a general na- [partial word]—general—your mind in general. We—our—the most concerning problem for us is what is mind. [Laughs.] What should I do with myself—with my mind is the most important problem. So—and religion only will give you the answer: What should you do with your mind

　　 This kind of mind is the mind we—religious people is concerned very much—are concerned very much.

　　So you should have clear distinction from [between] psychology and religion, and from cultural science, and from natural science, or else you will mix up your—you cannot …

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