..续本文上一页 will never cease to act. The terminology [laughs] of delusion is something which is not real and which will—which can be put an end to it. That is delusion. And true nature is something which is eternal. You cannot—true nature will not be lost. And through suffering there is true—you can have direct experience of your true nature, how strong it is. Your true nature is much much more than—stronger than your, you know, suffering you created—”small you” created. The true nature is incomparably greater than small mind.

　　Student H: Will the pain that you feel, the physical pain, do you mean that you create that because you think that you”re alone in it

　　 I mean, it is real, isn”t it

　　 [Laughter.]

　　Suzuki-rōshi: Yeah, it is real [laughs, laughter]. If you accept it, it is real. If you don”t accept it, it is not real, you know. “I—my legs is painful.” That”s all. If you put a period, you know, “I am painful.” That”s real. But if you say, “I am painful, so what shall I do

　　” Or, [laughs] “Whether I should escape from it.” Or, “There—is there any way to escape from it

　　” Then the pain you mean will become big [laughs]. That is “big patient [patience].” To accept the pain as it is is big patient.

　　Moreover, your body is not yours at all [laughs], in its true sense. “True you” have no form or—it has no form or no body to have pain. “True you” has no pain at all. True—sometime true na- [partial word]—your true nature tell your physical body to kill yourself [laughs], if it is necessary. That is true self. If you have fully enlightened in your true self, whether you are painful—your body is painful or not is not the problem. So religious, you know, mind is so strong. If it is necessary, they will burn their physical body.[1] It”s all right [laughs]. Your true nature—when your true nature tell you to burn up your body, that”s all right. It is so strong. It is much stronger than emotion. By emotion you cannot do that. Just, you know, your true nature can do it.

　　But when I say in this way, you will—you will have some misunderstanding. That is why we have “cover” for us. That is why we have Shōbōgenzō—what is true religion. Just to burn yourself, just to jump into a fire is not religion. Sometime crazy person will do that [laughs]. So right understanding of our inmost nature is very important. That is why we have teacher. That is why we have Shōbōgenzō. All right

　　Student J: What if a person doesn”t believe there is a true nature and is immersed in suffering: physical, mental, and emotional suffering

　　 [6-8 words unclear. Maybe: "The passions do not leave her.]

　　Suzuki-rōshi: Yeah.

　　Student J: Then what

　　Suzuki-rōshi: Worse, yeah much—if the people who say, “I am right,” that is worst [laughs]. “I am [not] doing anything wrong.” That [is] worst people. Those people will create various problem in this world. They are creating problem without knowing they are creating it. So there is no way to persuade them.

　　Student J: But suppose you have to work with them.

　　Suzuki-rōshi: Yeah.

　　Student J: Then what

　　Suzuki-rōshi: Yeah. That is why—

　　Student J: [2-3 words] so doubtful.

　　Suzuki-rōshi: That is why we have to have clear understanding of our life. When you work with people like that, we have to have clear understanding of what is suffering and what is our true nature. If one person understand it clearly, many people will be enlightened. But without enlightenment, to help people means nothing. Don”t you think so

　　 We say, “blind [laughs] man leading blind men.” [Laughing, laughter.] Even though they have lantern, it doesn”t work because leader is blind [1 word]. People are blind. So lantern does not work. They say, “Ah, we don”t want anything. We can walk by ourselves and build a bridge up in…

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