..續本文上一頁 the person who needs the help have to want this help

　　Suzuki-rōshi: Yeah, this is true, because before, you know, before you help others, you want help [laughs]. That is true.

　　Student J: Do we necessarily know this, though

　　Suzuki-rōshi: Hmm

　　Student J: Do we necessarily know this

　　 Or, I mean, are we aware of—

　　Suzuki-rōshi: But, you know, there is some—should be some way, you know—what—here, you know, to help others—why we help others is not only to help others but also to have—not—to try not to have regretful life for us.

　　Student K: Could you say that again

　　 I didn”t understand.

　　Suzuki-rōshi: Oh. Try—to try not to have regretful life for us—that is most important point. Don”t you think so

　　 You—you say, “I must help others” for sake of others [laughs]. But if, you know, you become regretful later, that is not so good. So the—first of all, you should do it from your inmost heart.

　　Actually to help others and to help yourself is the same, not different. Not to have—try not to have regretful life is to help myself and to help others. It is true that we feel better when we help others than to help ourselves because we are so selfish [laughs], in other words, you know. Actually, we are pretty selfish. So—and we know to—to be selfish is not so good, so we always try not to be selfish. Your voice of conscience will tell you, “Don”t be selfish. That”s too much. You are too selfish.” So usually we always try not to be selfish.

　　Actually, to help others is to help yourself. And to help yourself without paying any attention to others [laughs] is also to help others. Don”t you think so

　　 If you are observing your way carefully, that will help others. When almost all people will be discouraged, you—if you are brave enough or good enough to observe your way, that is—will be the great encouragement for others.

　　Student L: Well, when I look back, there”s a time in my life when I changed my mind as to what was the important thing in life. And at that time, I changed my mind as to which things had helped me. Before I thought other things had been helpful—

　　Suzuki-rōshi: Mmm.

　　Student L: —and then when I changed my mind, I looked again, and I saw that there was a whole different set of things that had happened that helped me define this. But these things were different from the others in that in the first case, they were things mostly that people did that were trying to help. In the second case, [3-4 words] there were things that I saw people did but that they did not necessarily see me see them doing. They did it because they wanted to do it, and it helped me because I saw it.

　　Suzuki-rōshi: Mmm. I see. That”s true. So to help others is not so difficult. If you only know how to help others, usually people thinks if you want to help others, you have to have some material power, or you must be quite healthy—healthy enough to be always happy, always have smiling face [laughs, laughter]. But even though you are like this [gestures

　　], you can help others [laughs, laughter]. If you do not lose your spirit, that is good enough. [Laughs.] Even though you have nothing, if you do not lose yourself, that is, maybe, the—the greatest help for others.

　　Student M: Excuse me. You say, “If you do not lose yourself

　　”

　　Suzuki-rōshi: Lose yourself—lose your, you know, confidence or—

　　Student N: This—but this has not come to the question that he asked at all. He asked, “How can you help others when you”re not enlightened

　　” And I think you”re talking about helping others as an enlightened person.

　　Suzuki-rōshi: No, no—not enlightened person.

　　Student N: No, just helping

　　Suzuki-rōshi: In—you know, before we attain en- [partial word]—perfect enlightenment, just to seek for enlightenment is great help for others. That is what …

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